Updated Thursdays

Wednesday, March 13, 2013

SPM Responds (Part 12.b)

Continued from Monday's post:

        ...The judge in my criminal trial didn’t allow us to expose anything negative about this family. It was, like, he had orders to do whatever it took to put me in prison.  But how else can you learn who a child is without knowing where she came from, what kind of parents she had, what kind of house hold she lived under? The jury in my criminal trial saw none of her home environment, and probably believed what Mary Doe told them, that they were your average, church-going family.

            My criminal lawyer, Chip, tried to expose something, anything, but with no luck. He asked the judge if he could ask Mary Doe a few questions about violence in the home. Here’s how that went. (Keep in mind “The Court” means the judge.)

Criminal Trial
(Court Transcripts Volume 10 of 31 pgs. 113, 114)

The Court: Well, I think we need to do it outside the presence of the jury before we do it in front of the jury.

            Chip: The only reason – and to make it even quick consider and cause any less – I’m not going to ask about any specifics. I do know of specifics but my only question is going to be has she observed – has (Jane Doe) observed any aggression between her and (John Doe).

            DA Andrews: How is that relevant?

            DA Oncken: It is not relevant.

            Chip: I understand their position but my experts are going to say it’s one of the very things that shapes a child’s mind and one of the things that they are looking for in a child in a case where there might be an accusation that is not true.

            The Court: Well, before anybody testifies to that they are going to have to do it outside the presence of the jury to make sure –

            Chip: We can do that now.

            The Court: Okay. Well, let’s just ask her the question outside the presence of the jury. That may solve all the problems and then we’ll go from there.

            Chip: Fair enough.

            The Court: Bring her in.

Notice how the judge don’t care who says what, just as long as the jury isn’t present. Because as long as they don’t hear it, it doesn’t matter. On the next page Mary Doe comes in so that Chip can question her.

Criminal Trial
(Court Transcripts Volume 10 of 31 pgs. 115-118)

            The Court: Go Ahead.

            Chip: Thank you, Judge.

            The Court: We’re outside the presence of the jury.



            Chip: Ms. (Mary Doe), over the course of your relationship with (John Doe) there has been some incidences of violence between y’all; is that correct.

            Mary Doe: What do you mean?

            Chip: I mean, there have been physical altercations between y’all?

            Mary Doe: Normal fights.

            Chip: I’m sorry?

            Mary Doe: Just normal fights.

            Chip: Okay. I understand and I’m not getting into the particulars or making any judgments about it. There have been instances of violence between you?

            Mary Doe: Yes.

            Chip: And on occasion (Jane Doe) has been present when that’s happened?

            Mary Doe: The arguments.

            Chip: Okay. And what you characterize as an argument, some of those have been physical in nature, somebody put their hands on somebody else – without blaming anybody there’s been heated arguments that resulted in somebody putting their hands on somebody else?

            Mary Doe: No.

            Chip: Okay. But what you’ve characterized as arguments, it’s your testimony that none of these that (Jane Doe) observed ever involved anybody touching anybody else?

            Mary Doe: Correct.

            Chip: How would you characterize these arguments that she has observed? Heated?

            Mary Doe: I’m sorry. Can you repeat that again?

            Chip: Yes, ma’am. You said there were arguments that she had observed. Is it a fair statement to call those arguments heated, somebody’s voice was raised, somebody was unhappy with the other?

            Mary Doe: Unhappy.

            Chip: Okay. Voices raised?

            Mary Doe: Yes.

            Chip: Okay. And on how many occasions would you estimate she had seen that?

            Mary Doe: Through her entire life?

            Chip: Yes, Ma’am, your best guess. More than ten?

            Mary Doe: No, not more than ten.

            Chip: More than five?

            Mary Doe: Maybe.

            Chip: Okay. So, maybe between five and ten?

            Mary Doe: Yes.

            Chip: All right. At one point in time during (Jane Doe’s) life (John Doe) lived in the same household that you and (Jane Doe) and your other two children lived in, correct?

            Mary Doe: Correct.

            Chip: And that would have been some of the times when she might have observed some of that behavior?

            Mary Doe: Yes.

            Chip: That’s all I have, your honor. That’s as far as I plan to go.

            The Court: I don’t see that it’s relevant at this point in time.

            The judge wouldn’t even allow Chip to show the jury that Jane Doe saw arguments, much less the nightmarish life she lived. And that’s basically how my criminal trial went, with the judge using his power to hide important information that the jury should’ve heard.

            Another example of that is when Chip found out, (through investigation), that Jane Doe’s younger brother and older brother had been caught trying to watch a porno movie. Chip asked Mary Doe about it, and she had to admit it was true. This was our chance to tell the jury that a porno is a plausible source of where Jane Doe could’ve been exposed to the act of oral sex. Because whether she made it up, hallucinated it, dreamt it, she would, first, have had to be exposed to it. Exposure could come from either, God forbid, her experiencing the act, or seeing it.

            After Mary Doe admitted the occurrence to Chip, the DAs put her on the stand. They wanted to show the jury that Jane Doe was not in the room when her brothers were caught, although their effort wasn’t that good. Here’s that testimony.

Criminal Trial
(Court Transcripts Volume 10 of 31 pg. 169)

            DA: And do you know how long it had been on top of the entertainment center?

            Mary Doe: I worked. So for awhile.

            DA: And do you know where (Jane Doe) was when they were caught trying to put that in?

            Mary Doe: I don’t recall?

            DA: She wasn’t in the room was she?

            Mary Doe: I don’t believe so.

            DA: Did you ever have a discussion with your children as to whether or not they had ever watched that video tape?

            Mary Doe: I was embarrassed.

            DA: I’m sorry.

            Mary Doe: No, I was embarrassed.

            First off, when you “catch” someone doing something wrong, it’s because they know they were doing something wrong. Then, to be embarrassed about discussing it with them… Even the DA had to hear that twice.

            Secondly, Mary Doe didn’t say whether Jane Doe was in the room or not. “I don’t believe so”, is not a yes or a definite no. But think about that for a second. If your kids were about to watch a porno, wouldn’t you know, for sure, whether your little girl was there or not? Of course, you would. Your answer would not be “I don’t believe so.”

            Here’s Chip telling the judge that he wants to be able to tell the jury that they can consider the fact that the child had access to pornography. (Again, this argument was done outside the presence of the jury.)

Criminal Trial
(Court Transcripts Volume 15 of 31 pgs. 6-8)

            Chip: Their own therapist has stated to me that one source of these types of ideas is explicit sexuality in movies or pornographic tapes, the likes that have already been introduced into the record. (Mary Doe) has already admitted that there was a pornographic movie that remained on top of the T.V. for some time before she discovered her kids had gotten ahold of it.

            The Court: Wait. Wait. There is no evidence in the record that the complainant ever saw the movie, period.

            Chip: No, Judge, there is a difference. The record is what the record is and I have the transcript and what – what is exactly stated in the record is that (Mary Doe) – there had been a pornographic movie on top of the T.V.

            The Court: I remember the evidence.

            Chip: Well, Judge, there’s inferences from the evidence that are just as important.

            The Court: No, no, no, no.

            Chip: They’re not important.

            The Court: Inferences that she saw something? There is no evidence whatsoever in the record that it happened.

            Chip: I shouldn’t be allowed to argue that with that movie that’s been laying on top of the T.V. that she discovers in her other kid’s possession that this girl might have seen it?

            The Court: No way.

            I’ll skip a page and show you the ridiculous examples the judge uses as to why he’s not allowing Chip to say that Jane Doe had access to a porno.

Criminal Trial
(Court Transcripts Volume 15 of 31 pgs. 10-11)

The Court: So if I drive by an X-rated movie store – I mean, I have access or somebody brings a whole barrel of them and puts them in my house that means that I’m –

            Chip: Judge, that’s not even close to what happen[ed] here.

            The Court: Well, how can you argue that that is – had an effect on her when there’s no evidence that she ever saw it?

            Chip: I can argue that the inference is it was accessible in that house. I don’t know what happened in that house.  I don’t know what happened in the house. It was, by her admission, laying on top of the T.V.

            The Court: So, what is the inference.

            Chip: That she could have seen it. I mean, I understand if the Court doesn’t like my argument, that’s one thing, but it’s permissible.

            The Court: No, no, it doesn’t have anything to do with not liking it.

            Chip: You’re laughing about it.

            The Court: There is no evidence that she saw it.

            You probably know that Chip didn’t win this argument, but something happened that says a lot about this judge. When Chip said, “I mean, I understand if the Court doesn’t like my argument, that’s one thing, but it’s permissible,” the judge started laughing.

            Have you ever been caught doing something wrong, and when someone brings it to light, you let off a guilty chuckle? The judge knew he was stopping a vital argument, (one the jury should’ve been able to hear), and when Chip put it to him bluntly, all he could [do] was laugh.

            I think it was ingenious that Chip showed (on record) how the judge laughed. I almost feel that Chip knew this case would be talked about one day, and he wanted people to see the type of shit he was up against.

            The truth was that pornography was accessible to this child, and the possibility of her being exposed to it was real, if not probable.

            One of the big questions in this case was, “How would a nine-year-old girl know that oral sex existed if she had never been exposed to the act?” That was a question that we were not allowed to sufficiently answer. And it left the opportunity for the DAs to ask their professionals questions like this:

Criminal Trial
(Court Transcripts Volume 13 of 31 pgs. 105, 106)

            DA: I guess let’s start from the end. Is it typical based on the research and your training and experience that children who have no sexual history or experience with any type of sexual act, do they typically dream, quote, or have a graphic sexual dream?

            Therapist: No. The only way that would be possible is if they were actually exposed to some type of graphic sexual stimulation.

            DA: So, are children able to just dream about oral sex being performed on them when they’ve never had that done to them before?

            Therapist: If they’ve not been exposed to it, it would be pretty impossible.

            Of course, the DA is asking these questions because Jane Doe testified that she wasn’t sure if the assault was a dream.
            That takes me to my next point. Our critics have said that Jane Doe’s story made “logical sense” and that she was a credible witness.


Anonymous said...

As i read, i feel anger towards the judge and the girl's family. Can't believe they played SPM like that,its unfair. After reading this how can someone believe that the legendary SPM is guilty? I guess they are blinded by hate. I always knew my idol SPM was innocent.But i enjoy reading these letter because it gives us more knowledge about the case. When I read them i feel as if i where inside the courtroom.it's fucking crazy how the trial has unraveled so far. FREE SPM!

Does anyone know where i can get the WDS SPM shirt? I've been trying to get one for such a long long time but no luck.

Artem said...

This is so unfair! why wasnt they allowed to talk about the other families situation? it seems like everyone was against Carlos Coy since the case started!! this is not fair just fucked up! makes me angry.

Also Dope House should make more T-shirts!!! or even Hoodies! we all would love to represent the dopest rapper! Free SPM!

Anonymous said...

Fuck The System!! They Hate To See A Mexican Go Big In The usa..






Anonymous said...

^ congratulations

Angela NiƱo said...

This angers me. If there is one favor I ask of anyone reading these blogs, is to help spread the website and the goal Incandesio has in mind. Anytime someone has an SPM related post on FB just comment with the link to this page. I always add www.spmaftermath.com and it adds a nice link. You also want to do this when people are hating. There's no need to engage it the hate...just add the link and add a little about the blog. Do your part....spread the word! Peace! @

ivan said...

Ok,so they clearly framed SPM.now, If he gets a retrial they would be able to expose these people. With that being said, are the chances of SPm getting a retrial slim to none? Because you would think that all the ppl involved in this shit are also trying their best to keep him from getting a retrial. Or am I looking too much into it?

Eric said...

This is all bullshit. Just red herring defense tactics that weren't relevant to the case whatsoever. That's why the judge denied it. Even if it was allowed, it would not have changed the jury's opinion. The jury in the civil trial heard some of this bullshit, and they still decided Carlos was guilty. Ponder that for a moment.

Incandesio said...

I'd rather ponder your claim to know what would and would not have swayed the jury.
Now I'm pondering the possibility that you're actually a psychic;

I pointed out on the last post you commented on that the civil jury was handed a case that was already decided; if what SPM has written is true, they weren't allowed to decide whether or not Carlos was guilty, only what he should have to pay under the assumption that he was. 25k, a paltry amount, x 0. That's not exactly a ringing indictment of a dangerous child molester.

Eric said...

Is 25K really a paltry amount? What kind of bankroll do you have?

Anyway, no, I don't think Carlos is telling us the whole truth, as per usual. According to this Chron article (http://www.chron.com/entertainment/music/article/Family-of-South-Park-Mexican-victim-awarded-1935238.php), "the jury last week unanimously concluded that Coy acted with malice when he molested the girl."

So that should tell you right there that the jury agreed that he was guilty. And think about it, if the jury truly believed he was an innocent man like Carlos claims, then they could have awarded the family zero dollars.

"Eleven of the 12 jurors voted to spare Coy from paying any punitive damages."

At least one juror thought he should have been punished further. Personally, I think he had already been punished enough. I can understand making him pay for past and future therapy (hence the 25K), but there is no need for punitive damages since he had already been sentenced for 45 years, an adequate punishment. I think most of the jury thought the same.

Eric said...

But this is what I find most interesting. In a civil trial, the defendant is required to take the stand. He can't hide behind his lawyer. I would be fascinated to read the transcripts from the civil trial when Carlos took the stand. I would be fascinated to read his deposition too. Think about the goldmine of information we could obtain from that. Finally a chance to read his side of the story, since he hasn't been willing to tell us for over 11 years now. Did he actually admit his involvement? Or did he continue to deny the allegations? Even if the judge ruled that they had to presume he was guilty, Carlos still had the right to deny that and say he was innocent. We need those transcripts, Incandesio. Can you get them?

Incandesio said...

Eric, I tell you what. You condense all of the comments you've scattered around the blog into a concise, readable few paragraphs and put it under this post, and I'll write you up an answer.

Otherwise, I'll just take what you've written here and use that.
As much as I love playing Whack-a-Mole with you, it takes a lot of time to answer six different comments with six different questions on six different posts, and I have things to do this week.

And yes, I will use what's publicly available from the civil trial to defend my points.

Eric said...

Didn't read this until now. You already made a post on the first page, and I'm not sure I would've wasted my time bringing those posts together anyway.

Anonymous said...

You can order them online from

Free SPM