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Saturday, May 18, 2013

Weekend Reading 69

I was reviewing a post about Denise Oncken's infamous Brady violation on the excellent blog, Life at the Harris County Criminal Justice Center for Monday's post. I was surprised to realize that I had never scrolled down to read the comments. Well, I finally did last night.

Denise Oncken, for those of you new to the blog, was one of the prosecutors in Coy vs. Texas. The case they're talking about is detailed in the Houston Chronicle, here: Harris County Prosecutor Accused of Hiding Evidence.

A lot of these comments are about Denise Oncken, and her reputation at the DA's office in 2009. Now, I have no way of knowing who these commenters were, and I can't say whether they're true or not, but...Damn, there was a lot of vitriol aimed in her direction. Take a look: Brady & Over-Reliance on Open File.

Also, Young J discusses Coy's case over at http://theprisonpensman.blogspot.com/


DVD520 said...

Hey, Incandesio when is Carlos getting out of high segregation. I think he mentioned on one of his letter that he was getting out May or June. I'm not sure.

Anonymous said...

It was May

Incandesio said...


I believe adseg prisoners get a review of their status every three months; however once you're in, it can be hard to get back out. Some people end up serving their entire sentences in solitary.

Anonymous said...

When you harm others you deserve the punishment. I think Carlos Coy makes good music, but that dose not give him the right to do what ever he wants. If he was truly innocent would he not hire a third party to administer mult lie detector test to at least prove in the minds of his fans he is innocent? And it is apparent that the family of the girl was not after money bc they would have settled out of court like micheal Jackson. It is sad that he made this decision, bc he had the influence to help Hispanic people become more then the bottom rung of society. If he did do this, denying is only going to stop he from receiving the help he needs to understand why he has these desires. Criminals are never guilty in there own minds, ask anyone in prison if they are guilty. Also, people have a survival instinct to forget traumatic experiences, regards to the girls testimony, if they didnt you would live your life in fear from the time you fell and broke your arm, example. He is already serving the sentence, why not admit the wrong doing and seek help. So that one day he can renter society, and use the gifts he has been given to change America for the better. Good luck to him but defending a man that seems undoubly guilty seems a little idiotic.

Incandesio said...

Anon 2:24:

That's interesting, because defending a system that is nationally infamous for wrongful convictions seems idiotic to me.

If what you're saying is true, and our brain shields us from remembering traumatic memories, there would never be any value to any victim testimony; yet the justice system revolves around it. Your argument discredits every kid that's testified with assurance and consistent detail regarding their abuse.

Anonymous said...

It is a flawed system, but I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who are convicted of crimes are guilty.

10, 000 Innocent People Convicted Each Year Study Estimates
Based on these results, Huff estimated conservatively that 0.5 percent of the 1,993,880 convictions for index. crimes in 1990 were of innocent people.

The prosecution would much rather have physical evidence then a minors testimony, ever watch c.s.i. Or and court shows? Testimony is probably a last resort, especially of a minor.

Like I said ppl out her defending Carlos, is only hindering him from admitting that he has a problem and getting the help he needs.

Why no lie detector test? it does not hold up in court but at least he will prove in the minds of the people he is truly innocent.

Look at any psychology book and the point I made about ppl forgetting tramatic experiences will be apparent.

Carlos needs someone to tell him he fucked up, not yes men catering to his every whim.

Incandesio said...

So...you're okay with the thought of each and every one of those 10,000 innocent people being told to shut up about their wrongful convictions, because the system works most of the time?

Telling anyone who might consider speaking out for those people not to, because the system works most of the time? That they should just allow the innocent to go through the system and get their "treatment", because the system is right most of the time?

That's a reprehensible position to take, even if you accept the "conservative estimate" of 10,000 to be all-encompassing.

Your lie detector question is answered in one of Coy's letters, posted right here on the blog for your convenience; have you bothered to read through them?

Anonymous said...

You seem to just want to believe what you want to believe. .05%

I seem to want to believe what I want to believe 95.5%.

I don't like the system as much as the next guy, but that is the system we where born into. It works most of the time like you said, should the entire system be scrapped bc of a very small percent of error?

There is the other minors from the past to, usually when there is smoke there is fire.

It's like when people say o.j. Didn't commit murder, blind ignorance.

I admire your stead fast stance, but sometimes it is good to take a step back and look at the reality of the situation. No one wants to see their hero fall, but he is just a man who can fall into temptation, like anyone else.

America is one of the most forgiving societies on this earth, if he would admit and make an effort to change most likely ppl would be willing to forgive his past mistakes. But no one can admire someone who takes no responsibility for their actions.

There is nothing I can say to make you believe anything you don't want to believe.

I know I would never leave my daughter with him, while you would end up like the father on the stand who was sweat talked into believing lies. It is sad when celebrity gives you a ticket to step on everyone around you.

There is nothing wrong with wanted to defend those ppl who are wrongfully convicted. But you should make sure that you choose a winnable battle.

You can defend him all you want on the Internet where no one who matters is listening... But what if it had been your little girl? Would you sit back and blame the system? Or seek out justice? That family got nothing in return except being called liars by people like you. I, personally, am happy to see the system work for someone.

Anonymous said...

Every 45 days a new song from the SON ALBUMS supposed re leased if albums not out yet ,is there going to be a vote on what song should be next ?

Incandesio said...

Anon 4:55:

I haven't heard from SPM in awhile, so I'm not sure. I'm not really connected with any of the music stuff, so you might contact Trey Coy: https://twitter.com/IIITreycoy or Brent Morton: https://twitter.com/BrentLeeMorton on Twitter, they would probably know.

Anonymous said...

O.j. Simpson didn't commit murder

Micheal Jackson never touch any boys

And R Kelly never pissed on a little girl.

Also 911 was a government conspiracy

Can't win an argument with stupid.

Incandesio said...

First of all, the study you cited said .5, not .05. If you're going to be slinging statistics around while telling me that I only believe what I want to believe, at least do me the courtesy of knowing your shit.

I would agree with you that the system works most of the time, although maybe not as often as that study would suggest; still, well over 90% of time.

You like that .5%, don't you? It looks so small and insignificant next to your big ol' 99.5%; what you're ignoring is the number 10,000. 10,000 people suffering daily for something they didn't do. 10,000 families struggling to live without someone they love.

If you're an adventurous soul, read a few posts and learn why I believe Carlos Coy is among the (conservatively estimated) 10,000 people suffering in prison for something they didn't do. Then you can make an informed decision about whether I'm engaging in blind hero worship, or pursuing a legitimate demand for justice.

And "choose a winnable battle"? Really? How about I choose a battle that I believe is right? But I guess that's not cool anymore, is it?

Incandesio said...

Anon 5:01:

Ah yes, the old "anyone who disagrees with me is stupid" gambit; how could anyone argue with such a master of persuasion?

Anonymous said...

GET 'EM, incandesio! This dude is sucked into looking at the percentage rather than the real number cuz saying .5% looks way better than saying 10,000. I don't know where he got this info that people forget traumatic experiences...that's exactly the opposite from what i'v experienced in life. And comparing a broken arm to being molested is just plain stupid. FREE SPM!!!-beanieman

Incandesio said...

That's exactly right, Beanieman, and that study the first Anon posted estimated 10,000 PER YEAR. That's 230,000 wrongly convicted since 1990.

That's the population of a small city; but as long as he keeps focusing in that .5%, he doesn't have to think about it.

Anonymous said...

So you're happy that these shitty parents who abuse their children and each other, got away with ruining someone's life pretty much just because they had beef with him and wanted a free ride. Dude, you're just as blind as the other haters. Your sentence, "you should make sure you choose a winnable battle.", tells me that you take the easy way of things and just go by what the court and what the popular media puts out. And that you are more about the "win" and not about finding true justice. It's like a broken record but, DO SOME RESEARCH AND USE YOUR OWN MIND AND JUDGEMENT TO FORM AN OPINION. Don't be persuaded in either direction. FREE SPM!!!-beanieman

Anonymous said...

...and also, i say yes to scrapping a system where a small percentage of innocent people are imprisoned. Not one innocent person deserves that. You wanna play the "put yourself in their shoes game" then you play it too. Let's say that the police kick down your door and say you fit the description of a suspected killer...10 witnesses say, "yeah that's him"...you go through a trial and all you have is you and your friend that was with you that day the crime happened, to support your alibi. Maybe yal were just playing video games that day, not even out in public. But since 10 people say you LOOK like the guy, you're guilty. In all actuality, the only thing you're guilty of is looking like a suspect. Sucks huh? Bet you would change your mind about your not giving a shit about .5% then, huh? But it could happen. People DO get convicted without evidence in this system. FREE SPM!!!-beanieman

Anonymous said...

My brothers brother is a prosecutor of child crimes, he said 11% of the people convicted are innocent of the charges.

Adizz Nexus said...

U rite I don't give a fuck it .01 percent of the the time the robbing motha fuckas of they life bust them fuk heads off wit some time for robbery I'm from New Mexico my cuz doin 33 years for some shit he didn't do in Texas same judge and prosecutor jus had to pay two Mexicans that couldn't read to sign statements admiting to a murder they didn't do fools did 12 yrs my cuz been down for twelve he in a book and innocent act going to help him but they busy as fuck he the first person in the us charged wit what he got the fuckers r crooked motha Fuckas got to start holding them accountable lock there funky ass up they don't mind busting fools off for shit they didn't do but noting ever goin change cause if don't personally effect u people act like shit ain't happening

Adizz Nexus said...

Damn so he should be responsible for that shit and do some time make damn with out doubt u taking something from someone they can't ever get back when your kid 1 and get out he 4 I did a little time for drugs I was guilty but don't think the crime fit the punishment but it is what is I knew the consequences but damn day don't know how mutha fuckas live with them selves if u goin to send someone to prison. Better have video Dan something people won't ever get that Time back