Updated Thursdays

Wednesday, August 10, 2016

Arguments

We received an interesting visitor the other day who claims to be a child therapist, so I thought I’d do a response here; her first foray onto the blog was pretty standard: I’m a horrible fucking person who should be fucking ashamed of themselves, fuckity fuck fuck fuck…so that’s nice. After I explained that neither I nor this blog are pro-rape, she wrote back with a longer attempt to show me the error of my ways, which I always appreciate. Her comments are in bold, my responses are not.

Linda Bailey said...
This is such a horrible blog. The owner of this blog doesn't have a fucking clue. No woman or child deserves to be raped. I see that the owner of this blog is the type that always blames the victim. It doesn't matter what the situation is, no woman or child deserves to be violated and have the rest of her life ruined by nightmares, being afraid to be touched again, PTSD...on top of not being believed. This blog truly does a disservice to women and children everywhere, and the owner of this blog should be ashamed.
Linda,

It's interesting that you would ignore the entire premise of the blog, which is that Carlos Coy was falsely convicted, in order to imply that I'm making excuses for rape. As you can see from the many, many stories presented here, Texas has a habit of falsely convicting innocent men and women, refusing to believe them when they state their innocence, ruining their lives and very possibly causing PTSD by imprisoning them until, years later, they are exonerated.

At what point am I allowed to question a glaringly false conviction? Does any individual who makes an accusation deserve to be believed despite obvious inconsistencies in their testimony and the evidence presented? Or do you prefer that we that we just blindly accept the imprisonment of innocent men, women and children in order to avoid making their accusers uncomfortable?

Linda Bailey said...
There are people who have been wrongfully convicted who deserve support; however, the man you represent is not one of them. I'm a child therapist from the Houston area. I'm very familiar with the case in question.

I’m thrilled to hear it. It saves me time if I don’t have to link back and forth to show the basic outline of the case, so I will take you at your word.

You have to understand how these cases work. With a child molestation case, you usually have the child molester and the victim alone in a bedroom. There aren't going to be any witnesses or surveillance cameras around. Most of the time DNA can't be recovered either, especially if it's a delayed outcry. If the child waits days, weeks, months, or years before he/she tells anyone about the abuse, then there is just no way DNA can be recovered.

Especially if there’s not even the slightest effort to do so; remember, Jane Doe made her outcry immediately, and was interviewed by an HPD officer. The only delay was on the part of the Houston Police, who waited 7 days to bring her and her mother (the outcry witness) in to make a statement, then trashed that statement and brought her in to the CAC 3 days later to make new statements. The accusations changed significantly between day 1 and day 10, as I’m sure you are aware.

So all we have is the child's word. Should we simply ignore the child's outcry? Should we simply let these child molesters get away? Of course not.

Is my other option to simply imprison anyone who’s accused regardless of guilt or innocence, because we don’t want the bad ones to get away? Our justice system is predicated on Blackstone’s Formulation, that it’s better for the guilty to go free than for the innocent to suffer. That’s why there should be an investigation, an attempt to gather DNA, and at least a cursory examination of whether the accusations are consistent.

You yourself admit that there are people who have been wrongfully convicted; do you refuse to believe that any of them have been wrongfully convicted of ‘icky’ crimes, like sexual assault if a child?

The fact of the matter is, the child is a witness to the crime. Like any witness, the child deserves to be heard in a court of law. It then becomes a jury's province to determine how credible the child is. A victim's testimony is evidence, and it can be very powerful evidence. Have you ever listened to a child's testimony in a case such as this? I have. More times than I like to think about.

When you listen to these children recount the abuse, you know they are telling the truth. There is simply no way they are fabricating these stories of perversion and horror.

Is there any way a story about being flown to Mexico to be raped by soldiers and returned before Mom picks you up from daycare, of murdering and eating babies, of seeing witches fly and being flushed down toilets to secret sex abuse rooms could possibly be fabricated? I assume, as a therapist, that you are also familiar with the ‘satanic panic’ that resulted in so much misery for so many falsely accused people.

The therapists, police officers, and judges in those cases were no less educated than you, no less earnest. They truly believed that, as you say, there was ‘simply no way they are fabricating these stories of perversion and horror’…yet now almost all of those imprisoned have been exonerated and released.

Do you know how to judge credibility? You can tell by the way they speak, their demeanor, their body language, etc. Your own experience, intuition, and common sense can tell you when something rings true or not. Do you have children of your own? If so, I'm sure you can tell when they are lying or telling the truth.

You have great faith in your powers of intuition; I have no doubt that those involved in the above mentioned moral panic felt the same way, as did those involved in convicting the San Antonio 4. Those women have been released and are well on their way to exoneration, despite the jury in their case being convinced by experience, intuition, and common sense that the accusers had been subjected to horrific abuse, including being injected with drugs and raped with a knife. None of these things were proven, but they were believed.

Yes, false accusations can happen, but it's not simply, "any individual who makes an accusation" can do this to someone. These children are extensively interviewed by police, therapists, and prosecutors. Then the child must testify in front of a jury with the child molester present in the courtroom. Do you have any idea how much it takes to go through all of that? That's a lot of hoops and hurdles to surmount. The rare false outcries are weeded out way before the case makes it to trial. In my experience, about 6-8% of the children I interviewed were lying, and it was usually because of a custody dispute that was happening between the parents.

Police, therapists, and prosecutors, all of whom, I have no doubt, have only the best intentions. I would agree that those involved in the justice system truly believe they are helping children, but that help can become dangerous when their ‘gut feeling’ tells them that they have the right guy despite what the evidence says. As you are so familiar with the case, you know that Coy has stated he and Jane Doe’s mother were romantically involved; does that raise the possibility, in your mind, that the accusations may have been false?

Or what if the child was being abused, but was encouraged to name Coy as her attacker because of his notoriety? The case of Ricardo Rachell comes to mind. He was convicted of an attack on a little boy and spent 6 years in prison. It’s likely he was identified because his face, disfigured years earlier, gave the victim’s mother the creeps.

Rachell was eventually freed because DNA, the existence of which was never communicated to his defense attorney, proved he was innocent. Despite the ‘hoops and hurdles’, he was wrongfully convicted. The attack was real, but the child testified that an innocent man had carried it out.

As far as inconsistencies, people are not robots. When recounting a story, it is normal for certain details to vary due to the limitations of human memory. This applies to everyone, especially children since their minds have not fully developed. In regards to this case, it is my understanding that the core of the child's story has always remained consistent. Maybe some minor details have varied, but the who, what, when, where, has always stayed the same.

Then I am afraid your understanding is wrong; the child’s story fluctuated wildly before, during, and after the trial. There are a lot of resources here on the blog, perhaps you should look into that.

I really do wish you were in the courtroom the day this child testified. Perhaps if you were there hearing it for yourself, you would realize that this child was telling the truth, and that Carlos Coy is exactly where he belongs.

She must have been very convincing, despite testifying repeatedly in court that she might have dreamed the whole thing. Not having been there, however, I can only look at the circumstances of the case, the testimony that has been made public, and think, “If they could convict a man on no more than that, who on this earth is safe?”
In the end, that’s what this blog is about; if they can convict Carlos Coy on nonexistent physical evidence, malleable testimony, and nothing else, who will they come after next? How many other men and women have been crushed by this non-stop urge to believe the children, evidence be damned?

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

This lady sounds like she went to hcc for her therapists certificate she seems like she gets too attached to he clients that's one thing you never do

Linda Bailey said...

I cannot comment on the efforts of HPD because I have never been involved in that particular process. Although I can say whether or not the police try to collect DNA depends on the type of abuse that occurred, how much time has passed between the abuse and the outcry, and whether or not the victim has taken a bath. You need to understand though that DNA is not required for these cases. I can also say your claim that the accusation changed significantly is definitely wrong and dishonest. That I can speak to, which I will discuss later.

Everyone charged with a crime deserves their day in court. No argument there, and Mr. Coy certainly had his day in court, and he lost. The police did not believe him, the prosecutors did not believe him, the judge did not believe him, and the jury did not believe him. They all believed the child. I believe that should give you some pause.

This child never told any crazy stories about being flown to Mexico or seeing witches. Obviously if a child tells a nonsensical or impossible story like that, I would not believe the child. That was not the case with this child though.

You have used a variety of fallacies in your arguments, mainly red herrings and faulty comparisons. You mention these other unrelated cases as if it proves something in regards to Coy’s case. Regardless of the validity of the cases you mentioned, they are irrelevant to the case in question. You are trying to distract attention away from Coy’s case by redirecting the argument to different cases. Very cute, but erroneous and dishonest.

You again mention something about how the child’s story “fluctuated wildly”. You of course do not provide any examples, but it does not matter because I know personally that your claim is wrong. The child has always maintained that Coy was the attacker. She has always maintained that the attack happened in his house, in his daughter’s room on her bed. She has always maintained what specific sex act Coy did to her. She has always maintained what happened before the assault, such as Coy making her dance, touching her on the bed, etc. She has always maintained what happened after the assault, such as the ride home, him telling her not to tell, him speaking with her family, etc. I read a piece on your blog where Coy states that the victim changed how long the assault lasted. Not that we should believe anything Coy says, but even if that were true, it is insignificant. Due to the passage of time, it is possible the child’s memory has faded in that regard. The fact of the matter is that she still maintains the assault occurred, and that is all that really matters.

Your comment about the “dream testimony” also demonstrates your ignorance on this case. If you heard the testimony yourself, you would understand the proper context of the dream statement. Coy’s lawyer tried to spin it, but everyone saw through it. Once again, there is a reason why the jury chose to convict him, and it certainly was not because of “malleable testimony”. It was powerful testimony that everyone knew was the truth. I wish you could have seen the doomed expression on Coy’s face when the child was testifying. He knew he was done, as did his lawyer who even complimented the child’s testimony.

I see no justifiable reason for you to believe that Coy is innocent. Were you there every day of the trial? Have you read every single page of the transcripts? If your answer is no to those two questions, then your assertion that Coy is innocent is very flimsy at best.

Anonymous said...

I hardly ever participate in this blog. But you seem to be an intelligent person so I figure I'd reply. If your child gets sexually abused I assume the first course of action you will take is calling the police am I right? Well Jane Doe mom first course of action was calling Carlos and asking for money. This is not some made evidence it's fact. The court chose not to allow this piece of evidence where the mother is clearly saying "Give me some money or I'm going to tell the police you molested my daughter". So it's shows a motive don't you think? I'm not saying he is a saint, but the mother actions shows her true colors....

Frank Holguin said...

Like you say it's horrible experience then I'm surely she would've know exactly how long she was molested or at least know foreshore it was not a dream. And Why would she post on Facebook that that's her favorite rapper makes no sense huh. Plus Carlos had so many females why would he go after some ex girlfriends daughter he was the type to live in the a stripclub not a rappist. Of course you would think his guilty you work for the system which is run by all lies Free Spm God is on are side

Linda Bailey said...

Anonymous, I don't know if you heard that from the Coy camp, or if you just made that up on the spot, but I assure you that your claim is not true. The family contacted the police first, and they never tried to extort money from Coy. If they had, it certainly would have been admissible in court. I suggest you verify your claims next time. Can you provide the legal argument on why this "piece of evidence" wasn't allowed to be heard? And can you explain why this issue wasn't brought up on appeal? Something tells me you won't be able to.

Frank, traumatic memories can thankfully fade, especially with children. No, a Facebook post like that wouldn't make much sense, which is probably why it doesn't exist. You need to verify your claims just like Anonymous up there. I would also recommend reading the trial transcripts and also researching the behavior of child molesters.

blacbing said...

And what is the behavior of a child molester exactly? Feel free to explain

blacbing said...

Can you explain the behavior of a child molester?

blacbing said...

One of Carlos coys friends have even said that she did in fact call him and threatened him... But he laughed off her threats

Frank Holguin said...

Yes Linda I've read all the transcript but no must children wouldn't forget I have a mother tgats been rapped before she 38 now and she could explain everything detail and all of shit your talking about is just rewire our brains so we could something that ain't true your just like every other deceive prick in the justice system the well come when we prove his innocence so keep on hating cuz it seems your pretty good at it Everyone quit wasting our time on her